Podcasts

Hosted by Perkins Coie Consumer Products and Service litigators David Biderman and Jasmine Wetherell, each episode features a conversation with noted professionals about achieving success in disputes and negotiations. The discussions are not limited to the legal realm, as success demands incorporating teachings from a breadth of perspectives. David, a baby boomer, and Jasmine, a millennial, enhance the discussions with their multigenerational perspectives.

Episode guests include negotiators and behavioral scientists. They provide practical advice, real world examples, and thoughtful strategies for surmounting the inevitable hurdles encountered in the worlds of litigation, business, and life.

At the end of the day, isn’t life a series of disputes and negotiations? Legal professionals, industry leaders, or simply those with curious minds are invited to join David and Jasmine in these explorations.

Listen to "The Persuasion Occasion" on Spreaker.

Episode Descriptions

04.17.2024 | Champions of Mixed-Use Urban Development Counter the Urban Doom Loop: Insights from Douglas Wilson and Michele Vives
Doug Wilson and DWC President Michele Vives discuss the growth and downturns of mixed-use development. Michele shares her perspective on the dramatic loss in value of downtown real estate and the interconnectedness of commercial real estate and such community issues as homelessness, and our need to address these challenges. Doug, a 40-year veteran of real estate cycles, describes why he is optimistic about downtown urban development and investing in San Francisco properties when others are closing their doors.

03.26.2024 | Mastering the Art of Influence: Unleashing Your Inner Charm ft. AJ and Johnny From The Art of Charm
Johnny Dzubak and AJ Harbinger, creators of The Art of Charm podcast, share how their podcast—and their subsequent training services—help people open up lines of communication and influence. They explain how positive feedback loops and other trained behaviours can make you more persuasive and discuss the skills that can help build trust and relationships. Johnny and AJ also describe how their work with Special Forces allowed them to communicate with other cultures to build valuable rapport.

03.12.2024 | The Rules of Persuasion ft. Carlos Alvarenga
We’re excited to talk with Carlos Alvarenga, author of The Rules of Persuasion, How the World’s Greatest Communicators Convince, Inspire, Lead—and, Sometimes, Deceive. Carlos reveals how he translated Aristotle's principles of persuasion to modern media (e.g., movies and rap music) to make his advice more accessible. He also explores his definition of persuasion, how Donald Trump's presidential campaign created a powerful loyalty from his audience, and the concept of chemistry in communication.

02.06.2024 | Operation Family Secrets (aka Casino), Featuring Former Assistant United States Attorney Markus Funk
David and Jasmine talk with Markus Funk about the investigation and trial of the powerful Chicago-based Calabrese family mob, who engineered years of extortion, gambling, bookmaking, and hundreds of murders. Their gangland execution of two mobsters in an Indiana cornfield was reenacted in Martin Scorsese’s Casino, giving viewers a glimpse of the chilling nature of organized crime activities. Marcus describes the trial of the nation’s most extensive mob murder case, how they flipped mob leader Frank Calabrese’s son, and how Markus’ closing argument prompted Frank Sr. to refer to him as “a dead man.” He shares fascinating details of his life as an assistant United States attorney (AUSA), how to be persuasive at trial, and how his experience has taught him the importance of being authentic, no matter your role.

01.10.2024 | Crafting the Narrative: Shane Read Teaches Courtroom Persuasion
This week on The Persuasion Occasion, we are joined by Shane Read, one of the leading (and best) authors and commentators on courtroom and boardroom advocacy. Shane’s compelling, award-winning books have been praised by the best trial lawyers in the world.

12.22.2023 | A New Era of Jury Persuasion with Rick Fuentes
On The Persuasion Occasion this week, we’re excited to talk to Dr. Rick Fuentes, nationally recognized trial consultant, about how to be more persuasive with the new generation of jurors. Rick discusses changing juror attitudes toward corporations and how their perspectives have been shaped by social media. He also will address their increased receptivity to conspiracy theories. Rick shares more about how lawyers can set a compelling narrative to quickly grab a jury’s attention, using concepts empirically supported by thousands of jury exercises. Dr. Rick Fuentes, founding partner of R&D Strategic Solutions, has specialized in jury behavior and decision-making and evaluating complex evidence for more than 25 years. Rick has advised trial teams on hundreds of civil and criminal cases and, through focus groups, mock trials, and surveys, assists trial lawyers and in-house counsel.

12.07.2023 | Nonverbal Persuasion with Abbie Maroño
This week on The Persuasion Occasion, Jasmine and David communicate (they don’t just talk) with Abbie Maroño, Ph.D., a body language expert, about how we transmit signals with body language, facial expressions, and other visual cues. Abbie describes how she integrates her research on measurement of nonverbal cues, mimicry, and closeness into training protocols that enhance persuasive communications. Abbie provides expert advice and coaching for academic institutions and businesses to help them understand how nonverbal signals serve as powerful modes of communication.

11.01.2023 | Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Gary Noesner
In our first episode, we welcome Gary Noesner, who shares insights from his career as the lead negotiator with the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI). Gary tells us how his strategy of patience and empathy was overruled in the Waco negotiations with the Branch Davidians, leading to disastrous consequences. He also discusses the importance of self-control and emotional regulation in any negotiation and illustrates how emotions can affect rational thinking and behavior.